No one took responsibility for the rape and brutalisation of children by religious orders when it was happening but there are more ways to respond now than simply by being appalled and swearing it will never happen again.
For a start, the orders which were responsible should be disbanded. This will only have token value, since there are few people left in them here and they have no responsibility for children any more. But if they stood down themselves it would be a singular admission of disgrace, and that is what is required of them.
Further, the state should impound their property and reverse legal sweetheart deals to limit the amount of compensation they would have to pay.
Those who continue to celebrate the contribution of these orders should examine their consciences carefully.
Currently there are Christian Brother trusts running schools on both sides of the border, preserving, as they see it, the ethos of the Christian Brothers.
Well the legacy of the Brothers may include some doctors and solicitors who think they got a fine education, but the suffering inflicted by the Brothers was not a fair price for that.
Those trusts should divest themselves of the name and reputation of the Brothers.
Further, I would like to see the history of the depredations, the cynicism and the corruption of the orders and much of the secular church taught to children in schools. It is as important that the history of this hideous period be taught to children here as it is that the history of the Holocaust be taught in Germany.
The atrocities were different in scale and degree, but the story is the same, of how ordinary people can become bestial.
And if the story is told, it has to be related to the global story. In many other countries, the sexual exploitation of disadvantaged children by Irish missionaries was disastrous.
In Canada, they were involved in running schools for Native American children. Those children were trained for servility before their white masters. Thousands were raped and many of those who fled the schools died.
In Australia they were responsible for the importation of Irish orphans and their severance from all hope of knowing who they were.
And if the evidence of experience now is that these celibate orders fostered sadism and sexual perversion, then we must look closely at how they are now conducting themselves in countries where they still function and claim respect.
There are no Christian Brothers teaching in Ireland but there are many in India and in several African countries.
If Ireland is to accept responsibility for the suffering that past generations allowed to be inflicted on children, then it must speak to those other countries and alert them to the danger that their own children may be abused in this way.This could be an Irish diplomatic responsibility.
Never again should these orders be respected or their word be taken untested about what they are doing.
And then we must try to understand how these things happen. Presumably many of those who joined the orders did so with an honest intention of living a disciplined and celibate life. Many of them left home at 14 to join junior seminaries, before their own sexuality was awakened and then had to learn to live with an impossible pledge to celibacy taken before they were fully formed.
These boys and girls also swore obedience to their orders and were, therefore, easily manipulated.
And then they were clustered together in single sex institutions, treated like gormless functionaries by their own superiors and put in charge of vulnerable children, who served the role of the cat that the office boy kicks.
But we have seen it in prisons and concentration camps and in English public schools, that a combination of sexual repression and power produces sadism.
Our own beloved CS Lewis, in a book regarded as a spiritual classic, Surprised By Joy, describes, indulgently, the routine sexual exploitation of little boys in an English public school.
These things were worse in Ireland than elsewhere, and where they were at their worst elsewhere it was often Irish clergy and religious who were doing it. That is the unforgettable legacy of a proud Irish missionary endeavour.
Well, let’s at least be sure, as far as we can, that future generations remember and understand, and that anywhere on this earth that an Irish missionary is in charge of children there is someone keeping a close watch on him.
The Christian Brothers should be banned and their property impounded.
May 27, 2009 by Mal
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Welcome
This is the blog of my journalism and recordings, with some extracts from my books too. I tend to sound off on Northern Ireland Politics and Culture. Some of the work here will be recent journalism, articles that have appeared in the Belfast Telegraph or elsewhere, but there is a lot of material going back a couple of years now, so please hang around and browse. Malachi
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Well said Malachi. Of no use to man nor beast
I went To St Mary’s Grammar School in Belfast between 1962 and 1969. My experience of the Christian Brothers was not a pleasant one. With the exception of one of them, they were, for the most part, brutal, emotionally stunted, arrogant b******s. For years I heard Catholic doctors and solicitors say the ‘Brothers’ were firm but fair or they built character. I hate what they did and much of the Catholic middle class should hold its head in shame for living in denial of what they (and Irish Catholicism)truly were. Where was Jesus?
Thanks Joe.
[...] course there are a few good anti Catholic rants and the usual hard core [...]
went to the CBS for 7 years never beaten or anything else some of the finest people i ever meet bar 0ne……
I went to one of their schools in England. Dreadful, truly dreadful. I was never sexually abused and not beaten very much but it was the constant fear. They ran a regime of terror and I have suffered mentally ever since. At least I know there is no God as a result. No merciful , loving heavenly father would ever allow himself to be represented on earth by such sick, perverted, sadistic bastards.
Has anyone ever got compensation from them for the mental torture that they inflicted? Inded has anyone in England got compensation from them or is it only in Ireland that they have been brought to book?
I’ve only just discovered this site. Yes, very little has been said about Christian Brothers’ abuse of children in British schools. But see the sites
http://millstonesblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=115726931786338&ref=ts
which I set up at Easter 2010 as I got so exasperated by the Vatican’s twists and turns. Both Archbishop Nicholas and Bishop Declan Lang responded to my account of abusive Christian Brothers at Prior Park Prep School in the 1950s; both said they were sorry, and that their Safeguarding Officers would be in touch. There’s been silence for a few weeks now. Maybe they’ve been inundated with similar complaints from disgusted (ex-) Catholics.
Hi
Which school did you go to in England? I am trying to compile a list of allegations against the Brothers regarding the English schools they taught in. It would be great if you could email me mr.downes@gmail.com
Hoping to contact Barry Cash. Please email me mr.downes@gmail.com
The Christian Brothers in India are accused of the same thing. Because they run premier schools which turn out students who later occupy high positions they are being protected by a corrupt system.
The Principal of St. Viccent’s School, Asansol, West Bengal, India was caught redhanded sodomising a boy. His only punishment was to “transfer” him to St. Mary’s Orphanage School, Calcutta as Principal, where he committed the same type of offence. The Christian Brothers became fearful of keeping him in their Schools, but got him another job in Mt. Hermon’ School, Darjeeling, WB, India. He repeated his offence.
The Catholic Church in WB, India, being embarassed by him, took a secret decision not to employ him in any Catholic School. But being “capable” (having met the Pope too !!) he has been Principal of many other Protestant Schools in West Bengal. Lately, retired from a top Protestant Calcutta School, “Calcutta Boys School”.
In 2000, the Chrisian Brothers in Ireland were asked about this person. They claimed to have no connections with the India Crhistian Brothers.
Hundreds of ex-Pupils of these so-called top schools in India, joke openly about the Brothers sadism.
Surely, there is a case here to be investigated. Particularly in the case of the much transferred Principal. The actions taken by the Indian Brothers are exactly the same in the cover up in Ireland.
Or does the Irish Govt. wash it’s hand off the criminal acts by its citizens on children in other countries ? Does the Irish Govt. think that their lives are cheaper ?
It will be interesting to know the answer to this.
Point of clarification: Which Christian Brothers are these? I would think that these are the Irish Chrisitian Brothers, correct?
Correct.
Going by your accounts whatever happened was bad…
But I strongly object to the comment on Irish brothers in India being the same. I was taught by these men and I can give a hand and a leg to vouch for the greatness of these Brothers.
The contributions that these Brothers have made are phenomenal and are the single most important reason why an Indian student feels gratitude towards Ireland.
I went to a Christian Brothers school myself and though I was beaten often I was never buggered. But so much abuse has been disclosed now that it is only sensible to be on guard against the men of this order wherever they are. Some will be fine decent people, others will be brutes; and the past record of the order is that the good ones did not restrain the bad ones.
Let me just talk about the Irish Christian Brothers in India. To say that ‘some’ will be good is a very biased perspective. In India, past pupils hold these men in high regard and many an Indian success story has its roots in the tutelage imparted by these great men. That doesn’t take away from the fact that their order went down the wrong lane somewhere. But, inasmuch as their activities in India are concerned, it shall suffice to say that without them, India would have been the poorer.
I respect your right to your opinion. It is exactly the sort of thing that many here would say about the brothers twenty years ago, even more recently.Now they are almost universally regarded as having been a blight on the lives of many innoicent children who were thrashed and raped by many brothers,; and though there were good brothers, they somehow couldn’t find the moral authprity to stop abuse. So they weren’t much use to us.
I caution you to be on your guard against these men. A day may come in India when the sentimental thinking falls away and the plain view of their behaviour appalls you. Of course, the Brothers in india may be different. When I met them in Delhi in the 1970s they were just the same people who had taught in Ireland and come through the same system. Today, no sensible person in Ireland would risk having such people educate his children.
Yeah, they are the same people who taught in Ireland,; the important difference being that they arrived in India in the 40s and 50s. Perhaps that may have contributed to their different nature. As everywhere, there are just a handful of Irish Brothers left in India, which is a pity since in India, never has their order been suspected of misconduct. One, in fact, feels sorry for the Brothers in India when news about the misdemeanours of their contemporaries elsewhere reaches here. For this country they have done a lot…
@Ankit -
Oh by the way – a small correction, they did not arrive in India in 40s and 50s.
St. Joseph college in Nainital was established in 1888 (1988 was the Centenary Year)……
I am an Alumni of the same institute….
I have read these comments with great interest. It is always good to get different opinions and to hear about different experiences. I would like to add my own knowledge to this forum.
My father was educated at St Joseph’s College, Naintal in India back in the 1920′s. He did not speak of his experiences until later in life when he told me about the sadistic brothers who taught him. Later in his life he was taken prisoner by the Japanese. When I asked him about his brutal treatment at their hands he said” I thought, I have been here before when I was at St Joseph’s in Naintal”.
I went to the Famous (infamous) Creagh Lane CBS School in Limerick Ireland in the 50s.
It was a frightening experience. and I was abused on a daily basis., for 5 years. two of my tormentors were transferred to St Josephs College Nainital India during that period,. Another left the Brothers and became a Head Teacher at a Catholic Primary School., He is now in his 80s and I recently rang him, and asked him to explain his behaviour back then., when he was a brother. He said” it was never like that,” however I advised him that he could tell that to the Judge should I take him to court. I made an arrangement to meet him in a Local hotel to discuss his conduct., However as expected he never turned up., Shit heads the lot of them, they have disgraced Ireland to the World.
Dear Sirs,
Your comments have come as a shock. I was also educated at St. Joseph’s, Nainital. I passed out in 2005.
The best teachers I have had in my life are the Irish Brothers. They were truly selfless and knowledgeable.
Yes, they were exacting disciplinarians and an occasional breach of discipline could earn a pupil the dreaded caning. But, it was all for our good and it was never brutal.
Regards.
Well, a lot of people believe that caning was good for them but it is actually illegal in Ireland, the home country of those Christian Brothers and were they to behave here as you say they do there, they would be jailed for it. Unfortunately, the order has been indicted of much worse, excessive brutality and the rape of children. I suugest you google Ryan Report for information on this; you will learn why the Christian Brothers are no longer trusted let alone revered at home.
Hey All,
I studied in St. Joseph’s College Nainital and i must say that the institute is where it is because of the Christian Brothers.
I feel that since in India most of the Christian brothers’ schools are run with a handy mix of local teachers and Christian brothers there has been mostly no sexual offences against the students.
As far as Terrorizing and caning go…. I am pretty sure that these days its not that rampant. Up until 10 years ago there was no legislature from the government in this area. Now in India too excessive physical punishment is illegal.
One more point, i do remember how mischievous we (my contemporaries and I) were. I think that it was necessary to keep some kind of a corporal punishment as a deterrent.
As they USED to say “Spare the rod, Spoil the child”… well those days are gone and so is the terror of the cane. What is left is all the good memories and good education imparted by the brothers. It did instill a sense of discipline and orderly lifestyle.
I hope that they keep up the good work, and sincerely hope that the institution of Christian Brothers introduce some sort of a screening process to ensure that only those who are truly dedicated to serve humanity are allowed in the order. Screen out the emotional nut jobs.
I was at St Joseph’s Naini Tal India from 1954-1960.
Yes the Brothers were stern disciplinarians and many were the canings I had. That being said, the cane was a common instrument of punishment in most if not all schools in India.
In my 7 years although beaten often I can honestly say that I was never interfered with sexually in any way, nor do I recall any others who were: in a boarding school of 600 boys that sort of thing would have come out.
My last two years were under the tutelage of Br D F Burke and interestingly, although he was a very stern disciplinarian I cannot recall a single instance of his meting out corporal punishment to anybody – so it can be done you see.
All in all I value highly the education and espirit de corps the Brothers instilled in me – maybe I was one of the winners. Its a great pity that so many others were losers
I went through the whole mail and the reactions thereafter. I am an alumni of the prestigious St Joseph’s College NainiTal (1963 – 1975). Yes corporal punishment was there and the Bros. were very strict and every pink card got a 5 up on your backside but the discipline and the values instilled in us by them helps us till today. I never heard of buggering in the school, and by the the meaning of the word bugger was explained to us by Br. Comber when we were in class 7. This word was used rampantly in the school. I am a proud student of an institution run by the Christian Brothers.
I was in St.Georges College, Mussoorie right thru when I was about 9 years old. Apart from the caning now and then there was never any sexual inteference of any kind from the Irish Brothers. They have educated me well and I wish them all the best in their endeavours.
Quiet shocking to read and comprehend.
9 years with St. Josephs College, Nainital, (1980-88) I can not even think of a singular instance which would correborate the above accustions.
I found the Irish Brothers quiet mellow (barring 1 who was deemed to be strict, but I didnt have an ocassion to be taught by him).
All of the comments in favour of the Brothers are familiar because they are all heard in debates on the order here in Ireland too. There may indeed be more people even here still who speak well of the brothers than condemn them. But the facts have been disclosed, that many raped and brutalised children in their care and the good ones did little or nothing to stop them. If Indian schools escaped this treatment, well and good; but many here who never dreamed that such things were going on have learnt painfully that violence and abuse were rampant. I don’t think it is open to people now to harbour romantic sentiments about the noble brothers without first pausing to check if they were abusing children and getting away with it.
Brother H***s, the ancient Christian Brother who absentmindedly groped me and others at our prep school (Prior Park Prep School, Cricklade, Wilts, UK) in the mid-1950s, had spent time in India. I don’t know whether he was a Christian Brother during his time there or whether he was attached to a school out there, but it seems likely.
My parents actually considered whether they should send me to Prior Park – instead of St Joseph’s Naini Tal where I actually was sent.
Clearly I missed out on something
Hi, All Again,
Maitiu here, and am looking at the comments since my last visit.
I would like to know the names of the Christian Brothers who thought in St Josephs, Nanital, India and who were Brutes ?. This will allow me to get the bigger picture.,
I spoke to the Head Brother (ex St Josephs), who since is attached to the Calcutta distrct., and asked him about two Irish Brothers in particular who I had experienced in Ireland. and his reply was most surprising, ” Why would you want to keep up contact with these people ? ”
WOW Surprise Surprise
Cheers
Ref; Irish Christian Brothers and replies since my post., I was at CBS Creagh lane until the end of 1957,ending 5 years of daily torture at their hands., A Brother from this same school has since gone to prison for his conduct. Others are hoping the Knock on the Door wont come. and others escaped by doing us all a favour and died before the law caught up with them. They ruined so many of my friends lives, many turned out as drunks, Druggies, Suicides etc., and society wonders why ? these were just ordinary young cheerful school-boys who were so unlucky to have been faced with these overwhelming over Zeelous Monsters.
LEST WE FORGET
Just a Little Addendum to my previous post., However and in spite ot the CB’s (cowardly B’s) I wound up in the West German Merchant Navy as an Officer. This in a strange way opened up another thinking process to my new life-style. Had not ” the Germans been pretty Cruel to the Jews,” the Concentration Camps, the aphorent treatment, hundreds of thousands of deaths, deportations Gas Chambers, etc etc., ? So here was O’Fathaigh sitting out on Deck on a daily basis having Cool Drinks, Gin, Beers, etc., with the Kapitain, Chief Officer (ex Submarine Commander) and Chief Engineer same background as were others. the latters in laws were now House Keepers to Karl Doinetz who by then was released from Spandau Jail. So looking back in hindsight, these ordinary guys were all taken In by ”Uncle Adolf” , all nice guys all Catholics following this ” Madman” also Hoodwinked by the ‘POMP AND CEREMONY’., that we here in Ireland experienced in the 50s. ” EVAIL PREVAILS WHEN GOOD MEN DO NOTHING”
Cheers/ Maitiu
The Christian Brothers were a odd lot.
Some were gifted, some were mere ornamentation, and some were nut cases.
Some who joined the CB, did so, because it was their only salvation.
Obviously, the CB were not very selective about who they took in.
Most of the people defending the CBs, are actually defending their own prestige.
If there were any sexual aberrations at our time, we were not openly aware of them.
There were some whispers, but they could have been just that.
I won’t take any names here, but I lost a year because a fellow classmate accidentally pulled down a lamp shade.
His intention was to take the bulb out, shake it to break the filament.
He was standing on a rolled up mattress, to reach the lamp shade.
He lost his balance, and the shade came down.
All of us, the class XI guys, were horrified.
The consequences could be terrible, because the Principal was a nut case.
I suggested that we just leave the shade on the floor and feign ignorance.
Unfortunately, the majority was of the opinion that the lamp shade should be thrown out of bounds.
The idiot who brought down the shade, was too scared to go out of the dorm to the sheds at night.
So I accompanied him. The lampshade was dispatched from a door way in the sheds, in the near proximity of the boiler.
What ensued was a witch-hunt. The idiot and I were expelled. That was just before our SC exams.
You want to verify this ?
Talk to Br. Brendan MacCarthaigh, who is presently at St. Joseph’s, Kolkata.
The loss of a year, was bad enough; the rumors that went around were devastating.
Ravindra,
Suggest you have a look at another site called ” Bock the Robber ” and type in Memories of a Violent Teacher on the top Right search box.,
Happy Reading
maitiu
Ravindra,
I never met any of the Gifted ones, only the Nutters and the Molesters, usually they came as one and the same person, Two in one so to speak. Are there many of them left in India in these times ? I spent one year in India way way back in 1965 and enjoyed it immensely. I got back again some years later but only on a short visit. Calcutta Madras and Bombay were pretty Cool, but not in the todays meaning of the word.
Cheers,.
maitiu,
I agree with you to the extent already stated by me in the last post
“Some who joined the CB, did so, because it was their only salvation.
Obviously, the CB were not very selective about who they took in.”
My previous post was too long, so I left out a few things.
1. By and large, they were a frustrated lot.
2. They openly indulged in favoritism, generally based on the status of their parents.
3. They openly showed their disdain towards the Indian culture (of course there were exceptions, as mentioned in 2.)
4. At least in my days, they were usually good in English Literature, music and sports.
5. They were pretty bad in Math, Physics and Chemistry. Local teachers had to used for these subjects.
If fact, the nutty Principal, referred to in the previous post, made the fatal error of trying to teach us math in class XI.
That left him horribly exposed to ridicule. Too often, I had
to point out a better solution.
6. For those of us who got into the prized institutes/colleges, the credit is largely due to the local teachers.
I am particularly indebted to Mrs. Lyall and Mr. Pyarelal Shah.
7. The saying “Spare the rod …” was extended to the point of sadism.
8. They were fiercely protective of their fellow Brothers, even those who erred grossly.
To expound on the second point, they were favorably inclined towards parents who
a) were Christians
b) held important bureaucratic or political posts especially toward royalty.
c) led a westernized life style
There were exceptions like Br. Foley and Br. Brendan MacCarthaigh.
Ravindra
I agree Ravindra, you sum them up well with the above Psychological profile. Anyway better times now for School Kids and thats how it should have been in the past.
Hope Things are Good on the Indian Continent, I will go back there one day and catch up,
Maitiu
Malachi,
Fuck you and your biased website. I was educated by the Christian Brothers in Australia and can vouch for their dedication and commitment to a cost-effective and accessible education, especially for working class people. Remember they are paid a mere stipend and their ethos is very much about accessible educated – and they put this in practice in a way that no other religious-affiliated schools do. Of course there are some who were sex abuses. However, we are more at risk from being sodomised by an uncle or other family relation, than by any clergy [cf. Stanford University Study on Catholic sex abuse. Sex abuses by ministers of the Southern Baptist church is high in frequency than Catholic clergy. Are Southern Baptist clergy married?…hmmm].
What pisses me off though, is that some Irish guy with the pathetically anglicised name ‘Malachi’ [why don’t you use the correct Ghaelige form, Mealsechlainn? Pathetic wimp] betrays his Catholic forebears and their massive contribution to Australia and the US where it was the Catholic church (and only the Catholic Church) that educated you people – gave them a right kick in the arsehole – and delivered them respectability and social mobility. Previous to this, the middles classes in Australia and US regarded you Irish as stupid, backward and like dogs. You can thank the Catholic church for giving you subsidised education and a mechanism in which to achieve social mobility and integration.
You traitor.
Well Sean, they really scrambled your brain didn’t they?
They may have started out with the laudable intention of providing education to the poor but they degenerated into something reprehensible. Even where there was no sexual abuse children were routinely physicaly and mentally abused by these men, whilst those in charge allowed it to happen.
By the way I’m English and went to one of their schools in England.
Hi Sean,
Just read your contribution to the Site, and I am most surprised., Have you not been reading the Australian Newspapers over the years, they are a very fine source of information., I have been in your country many times and Like Ireland and the rest of the World, these ”Crazy People were allowed to Look after Orphans, and teach school the World Over, – Hiding under the Banner of the Catholic Church, Great Hiding Place for all sorts who Gravitate to Professions which give them access to our weakest.,
I only met one CB who really was a Gentleman, Each and every other one was a Deviant., – Thats my Story.
Count yourself lucky that you had’nt my upbringing, and that yours was pretty Rosy., Good Luck,
Maitiu