Comments on: Do humans disappoint the humanists?

By: brian mcclinton

brian mcclinton — Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:50:34 +0000

You say that ‘the humanists are always attacking you. Not true. But you cannot expect all other Humanists to ignore your attempts to lump us together into an amorphous block. Thus your joke that you are the only humanist in Ireland. As freethinkers, we do not speak with one voice. If you look at recent issues of Humanism Ireland, you will see that there are disagreements on numerous issues in religion, politics, culture and so on. Examples include the very matters you raise about the role of religion in Irish society, whether there is a ‘spiritual’ dimension to Humanism, is it possible to be a Quaker and a Humanist, Gay Pride, the Palestine-Israeli conflict, and so on.

As for ‘the two attacks on me’ as you put it, they were both written by one individual and they are that one individual’s view of perspectives you have presented. That individual is yours truly and there was no intention to attack you as a person. I would never call you or anyone else a prat. In the first case, I suggested you were wrong in saying that the ‘new atheists’ were doing anything new. They ARE making atheism respectable for many people who have been shy about expressing opinions that go against the grain. Atheists should be proud of themselves and so should Humanists. Look at the Atheist Bus campaign, which was in response to evangelical bus advertising linked to a website implying that non-Christians would spend eternity in torment. They hoped to raise five thousand pounds and have so far raised 140,000.

As for you book, the fact of the matter is that it is not about Ireland’s retreat from religion at all but about a decline in institutionalised Catholicism. Moreover, you DO imply that the Irish know more about religion than the English: “You can see the paucity of the understanding of religion everywhere. It was particularly evident in the media coverage of Pope Paul 11. Most journalists in Britain are simply mystified by Catholicism. They have no comprehension of its culture or rites. Indeed, they have virtually no comprehension of Christianity at all”. This is a very strange statement, which conflates religion with Catholicism and then Catholicism with Christianity”.

I do think your view of Humanists is prejudiced and unfair. Indeed, I think you know yourself that some Humanists believe in a united Ireland and others are unionists. In terms of local parties this is a variety of allegiance, and some Humanists are Left and some are Right. Some are agnostics, some are atheists, some are sceptics, and some of us, yes indeed, some of us, even claim to be Christians and Humanists. How’s that for variety?

By: Lance Farrell

Lance Farrell — Sat, 03 Jan 2009 18:23:28 +0000

Malachi,

Saw your book in Dublin this fall and have ordered it now that I’m back in the USA. I’m working on a thesis that coincides nicely with your book. I’m interested in the rise of secularism in Ireland as well, but want to explore its expression in the literatures of Ireland–poetry, fiction, songs, etc.. Perhaps we can correspond further as my project develops. For starters, I’d like to to understand your use of the term “fundamentalist” as it pertains to a-theists.

In the meantime, I look forward to an informative read.

Slan,

Lance Farrell
USA

By: Jack Williams

Jack Williams — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 13:44:40 +0000

Hi Malachi,
I’m reading Empty Pulpits and comment:-
I grew up in Dublin , was educated by the Christian Brothers(thank God) and now aged 76 am retired in Drogheda where I go to Mass daly and sing in two church choirs, But I went violently astray in my time and believe me it takes a lot of time and work to find the way back. Back to what you may ask ? Back to the God who is inside each of us.”The Kingdom of God is within you ” If I was running for Pope I would have a Clintonesque slogan ” IT’S INSIDE YOU STUPID !
Back to your book. Did you see the first ever live broadcast from Croagh Patrick on RTE this year:well worth watching
Your book mentions people singing Faith of our Fathers : I was flabergasted the first time I went to a match in Old Trafford circa 1958 to hear the crowd sing it there as lustily as they do (or did ) in Croke Park.
Jack Williams
Drogheda

By: Gerard O'Neill

Gerard O'Neill — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 10:40:39 +0000

Thanks for your insights and perspectives Malachi. I agree about the ‘new atheists’ – new bigotry same as the old bigotry. I grew up a Catholic in the North and there’s one thing I can spot a mile off is sectarianism. And secular sectarianism is just as ugly as the religious variety.

Keep the, er, faith.

http://www.turbulenceahead.com